Asylum-seeking refugees come to the United States from countries all around the world. Refugees' experiences in their home country and subsequent journeys differ, but many Arizona refugees are grateful for the freedom and protection they receive from the United States. Below are a few experiences of Pakistani refugees that have come to Arizona within the last decade.
Asim Maqsood
The United States gave me another life."
Asim Maqsood sought refuge in the United States a little over ten years ago because he feared for his life in his home country of Pakistan. Maqsood said he began receiving threats after he spoke out against laws he felt threatened the basic civil liberties of women, children and minorities. Maqsood himself had firsthand experience as a minority, having grown up as a Christian in a predominantly Islamic country.
Ten years ago, he and his family left Pakistan, their home and culture, to come to the United States in search of safety and a better life.
After a year, they landed here in Phoenix, Arizona, which, according to The New York Times, is the fourth most welcoming state to refugees.
The following is an interview with Maqsood. The interview was edited and condensed by Adrienne St. Clair.
Click for the full story
Ten years ago, he and his family left Pakistan, their home and culture, to come to the United States in search of safety and a better life.
After a year, they landed here in Phoenix, Arizona, which, according to The New York Times, is the fourth most welcoming state to refugees.
The following is an interview with Maqsood. The interview was edited and condensed by Adrienne St. Clair.
Click for the full story
Q: Tell me about your experience here in the US.
A: The biggest thing is freedom. Freedom of speech. It was very difficult in Pakistan, being a minority. I’m not against any religion, but it was hard core Islamic country. So, when you introduce yourself to someone that you are a Christian or a Hindu or any other religion, it sometimes becomes scary, because people don’t accept other religions. It’s not a multicultural society. That’s why it’s hard. You’re always scared when you talk to people. Over here, you know, it’s a lot of fun. I can go anywhere, eat at any restaurant.
Freedom is the biggest thing over here. I enjoy it and respect it, actually. It’s very different over here and it’s different in a sense it’s very beautiful. And freedom of religion, freedom of speech, all these things matter a lot to me.
Q: Can you tell us a little bit about your experience here in Phoenix?
A: Yeah, Phoenix, the weather is pretty much like Pakistan. It’s not different. It’s little dry over here. People are very friendly in Phoenix. (laughs). I know some people say there are things they don’t like. But I have a very positive attitude towards things. I got a job here, and not even one person ever said, “You’re from another country.”
I know I have a heavy accent, especially when I came, and if I compare Pakistani society to American, if I was in Pakistan and I have a different accent, people will make fun of me. And over here, they enjoy. They sometimes tell me, “Hey, we like that accent.”
And the other thing I see is acceptance. It’s a multicultural society. It brings beauty and acceptance to the society over here. And I have visited other countries but this is the best because if I want to eat Mexican food, it’s available here. If I want to eat Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, there’s a lot of variety and beauty here.
I see a lot of courtesy here. Like in many countries, especially in Pakistan or India, if a girl or a woman has a child without wedlock, that child would never get respect in the society. He would be looked down upon. But here in United States, you know, he has rights. Sometimes even more rights than others, or privileges and help. And I mean, I am not saying that you should have children without wedlock or without commitment. What I’m saying is, that the value of a human being is really really there in the United States. It’s not that if you belong to this religion you are nothing, if you are born out of wedlock, they use very bad word I don’t want to say. There are lots of programs, many organizations in the United States are running that are helping the community.
Q: Can you speak more about how you were a minority in Pakistan?
When I was growing up, I was in a government school and I was not allowed to drink water from the tap where everybody could drink. And it’s not that my hygiene was poor, it was the religious issues. I was infidel. So, no acceptance.
People are very committed to their radical beliefs. Some people say it’s changing, but for the last 10 years I have seen that so many people have been killed because of the religious problems in Pakistan.
So, you know, the basic freedom is not there. And people suffer a lot. And then there is a blasphemy law, that if you have dispute with the majority, they can blame you, that you have committed blasphemy against their religion. And then anybody will kill you in the street because they want to take pride in their religion, that they killed an infidel who was saying bad things about their religion. And they take pride in that. Many people have been killed in Pakistan. And it’s not just the Christians or the Hindus. Even Muslims were killed because of that.
Q: It could easily be argued that you would be a minority in the US. What has been your experience here in Arizona for example, of being a minority?
A: Being a minority in Pakistan is totally different. Here in United States, if you are not respecting the law, either you are white, black, Mexican, from Asia, police are going to catch you. And it provides a lot of protection to people over here in the United States. For example, if a person who is a United States citizen, and has a wife from China or India or Pakistan, who is not a citizen, if there a domestic violence from a husband who is an American citizen, the law is not going to give him priority.
Like, “Oh, you are American citizen and we are going to protect you more because she is not American citizen.”
No, it’s a respect of law over here. They have provided protection to a lot of women and men who came from other countries, married to American citizens. But when American citizens did wrong, the law did not help them. It helped the person that was victim.
And so, I think American society providing justice to its people is a big thing. And I know there are situations some people say that there are lots of things that are not good in this country, and I don’t say that this country is perfect. But if you travel other countries, live there, then you realize how much we have here in United States.
Q: Have you experienced any racism or had any negative experiences while you’ve been here?
A: No, I don’t think so. People might have felt something bad towards me but no one has ever said anything bad to me. Actually, I was welcomed wherever I went.
Q: So are most of the people that you associate with, are a lot of them seeking asylum, have they sought asylum, or are they refugees?
A: Yes, some of them have already got asylum, and some of them are seeking asylum. But at my work I meet a lot of Arabs, and Afghanis, and I had Indians and Russians and it takes them some time to understand what this country offers.
I might sound a little negative here. United States brings them here, so they get free tickets. And they come over here and they are provided with apartments, many organizations provide them furniture. Then they get food. Then there are programs that get free English language courses and in many cases they have free education in some colleges also. I might be wrong on that, but the people I met, they have these privileges.
And it’s just not another country, it’s a totally different world. If you’re coming from the third world and coming to United States, it’s a big jump. So, people like to come here, but then in many cases their skills don’t match to the first world, like language, and you know, it’s a very advanced country. And what happens is, then they start disliking it. But the thing is, nobody wants to go back.
So those kind of things hurt me, because United States gave me another life, because I was persecuted badly before coming here. I took stands against some laws. I spoke up openly that women’s rights situation, and children’s rights situation, and minority’s rights situation is not very good in Pakistan. Especially for women. And I would always say, no matter what is someone’s religion, if they’re born in the country, they all should have equal rights. But it’s not there.
If in United States, you know, if you want to move forward in life, opportunities are there. No matter you’re from France or England, you speak a British accent or Spanish accent, or Asian, or Indian, or English. If you are doing good, the country provides you with opportunity.
Yes, there could be some problems. If you want to reach high, yeah, there could be some challenges, some trials, but I still say this country gives you opportunity to do better and to help the community.
Q: What are your thoughts on how Arizona seems to be more accepting to refugees than to undocumented immigrants?
A: You know, this country provides a lot of opportunities, that’s one thing. And I’m not very expert on economics, but I learned from people that when people come from other countries they contribute a lot to our economy, and keep the market going on. They buy cars and rent homes. So, that’s a good part. But if somebody just sneaks in, comes illegally, that’s not the right thing. Then it creates a lot of other problems.
I encourage, I actually strongly believe, that people should come here legally. If you don’t take responsibility in any country, then you’re not contributing to the society. Come here legally and use the opportunity and contribute to the society. I’m here, my brother is in Pakistan. In 10 years, I tried to get him here. He could not come. I never tried to get him illegally over here. I said no, this thing will be done legally and properly. You are more than welcome, I support you. But I will never do anything which is illegal to come over here.
This is what I believe. I learned long time ago when I was a young boy in school that when you do the wrong thing, it’s easy in the beginning, and then it starts becoming difficult and difficult and difficult. The right things are difficult in the beginning, and then slowly, slowly, you know, they become easy for you. Wrong decisions always lead to the wrong destination. Wrong paths lead to the wrong destinations. So, when this country offers a lot then we need to do things correctly and that will bring beauty and justice to our society.
Q: Do you have concerns about the new election?
I don’t think, I don’t see any President that would be liked by everybody. So that’s one thing. Then, people have their own thinking, their own ideology. But I don’t think one President makes all the decisions in United States. We have representatives, there are hundreds of them, and there is media in the United States, and people are very open when they talk.
You know, President-Elect, he’s said many things. Many people have concerns, but there is a judicial system in United States, police, Congress, Senate, they’re all there, it’s just not one President.
So I don’t have concerns. Democrats have some time, now, you know, let’s give Republicans some time. So it’s not just one party ruling all the time. You need to give opportunities to both of them to do their best, to show their best. Yeah, that’s what I feel.
Q: What would you have done if your Visa wasn’t approved?
Well, I would have tried another country. But I am not a person would stay back. Yeah, I would have fought with them and died. I came here and a couple years after, my uncle became, you know, we were working together, and he became federal minister in the government for minority affairs and he was assassinated. They killed him, almost 30-40 shots of AK 47.
Q: Is there anything you want to add or anything you wish people would know about coming here as a refugee?
I would suggest the refugees, when they come here, it’s a different culture. So respect it, enjoy it while you’re here. And I would suggest become a part of American society.
I mean, you can have your own values and eat the food you want, wear the dress you want, but become a part of United States culture. Learn English. Read English books, you know, watch the movies. I mean, there are some bad movies but there are lots of good things here. You know, become the part of United States and contribute.
So I would suggest that yeah, become a part of United States, you know, emerge in the culture, it’s a beautiful culture. You can still have your own identity. You can go to the temple, you can go to the mosque, or anywhere you go, but when you’re here, this country has brought you here, gave you opportunity, then you should be proud to be an American over here. I don’t want people to say I’m Indian American, I’m Pakistani American, I am Spanish American. No, if you’re here, you become a citizen. Then you’re American. We are all American then.
A: The biggest thing is freedom. Freedom of speech. It was very difficult in Pakistan, being a minority. I’m not against any religion, but it was hard core Islamic country. So, when you introduce yourself to someone that you are a Christian or a Hindu or any other religion, it sometimes becomes scary, because people don’t accept other religions. It’s not a multicultural society. That’s why it’s hard. You’re always scared when you talk to people. Over here, you know, it’s a lot of fun. I can go anywhere, eat at any restaurant.
Freedom is the biggest thing over here. I enjoy it and respect it, actually. It’s very different over here and it’s different in a sense it’s very beautiful. And freedom of religion, freedom of speech, all these things matter a lot to me.
Q: Can you tell us a little bit about your experience here in Phoenix?
A: Yeah, Phoenix, the weather is pretty much like Pakistan. It’s not different. It’s little dry over here. People are very friendly in Phoenix. (laughs). I know some people say there are things they don’t like. But I have a very positive attitude towards things. I got a job here, and not even one person ever said, “You’re from another country.”
I know I have a heavy accent, especially when I came, and if I compare Pakistani society to American, if I was in Pakistan and I have a different accent, people will make fun of me. And over here, they enjoy. They sometimes tell me, “Hey, we like that accent.”
And the other thing I see is acceptance. It’s a multicultural society. It brings beauty and acceptance to the society over here. And I have visited other countries but this is the best because if I want to eat Mexican food, it’s available here. If I want to eat Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, there’s a lot of variety and beauty here.
I see a lot of courtesy here. Like in many countries, especially in Pakistan or India, if a girl or a woman has a child without wedlock, that child would never get respect in the society. He would be looked down upon. But here in United States, you know, he has rights. Sometimes even more rights than others, or privileges and help. And I mean, I am not saying that you should have children without wedlock or without commitment. What I’m saying is, that the value of a human being is really really there in the United States. It’s not that if you belong to this religion you are nothing, if you are born out of wedlock, they use very bad word I don’t want to say. There are lots of programs, many organizations in the United States are running that are helping the community.
Q: Can you speak more about how you were a minority in Pakistan?
When I was growing up, I was in a government school and I was not allowed to drink water from the tap where everybody could drink. And it’s not that my hygiene was poor, it was the religious issues. I was infidel. So, no acceptance.
People are very committed to their radical beliefs. Some people say it’s changing, but for the last 10 years I have seen that so many people have been killed because of the religious problems in Pakistan.
So, you know, the basic freedom is not there. And people suffer a lot. And then there is a blasphemy law, that if you have dispute with the majority, they can blame you, that you have committed blasphemy against their religion. And then anybody will kill you in the street because they want to take pride in their religion, that they killed an infidel who was saying bad things about their religion. And they take pride in that. Many people have been killed in Pakistan. And it’s not just the Christians or the Hindus. Even Muslims were killed because of that.
Q: It could easily be argued that you would be a minority in the US. What has been your experience here in Arizona for example, of being a minority?
A: Being a minority in Pakistan is totally different. Here in United States, if you are not respecting the law, either you are white, black, Mexican, from Asia, police are going to catch you. And it provides a lot of protection to people over here in the United States. For example, if a person who is a United States citizen, and has a wife from China or India or Pakistan, who is not a citizen, if there a domestic violence from a husband who is an American citizen, the law is not going to give him priority.
Like, “Oh, you are American citizen and we are going to protect you more because she is not American citizen.”
No, it’s a respect of law over here. They have provided protection to a lot of women and men who came from other countries, married to American citizens. But when American citizens did wrong, the law did not help them. It helped the person that was victim.
And so, I think American society providing justice to its people is a big thing. And I know there are situations some people say that there are lots of things that are not good in this country, and I don’t say that this country is perfect. But if you travel other countries, live there, then you realize how much we have here in United States.
Q: Have you experienced any racism or had any negative experiences while you’ve been here?
A: No, I don’t think so. People might have felt something bad towards me but no one has ever said anything bad to me. Actually, I was welcomed wherever I went.
Q: So are most of the people that you associate with, are a lot of them seeking asylum, have they sought asylum, or are they refugees?
A: Yes, some of them have already got asylum, and some of them are seeking asylum. But at my work I meet a lot of Arabs, and Afghanis, and I had Indians and Russians and it takes them some time to understand what this country offers.
I might sound a little negative here. United States brings them here, so they get free tickets. And they come over here and they are provided with apartments, many organizations provide them furniture. Then they get food. Then there are programs that get free English language courses and in many cases they have free education in some colleges also. I might be wrong on that, but the people I met, they have these privileges.
And it’s just not another country, it’s a totally different world. If you’re coming from the third world and coming to United States, it’s a big jump. So, people like to come here, but then in many cases their skills don’t match to the first world, like language, and you know, it’s a very advanced country. And what happens is, then they start disliking it. But the thing is, nobody wants to go back.
So those kind of things hurt me, because United States gave me another life, because I was persecuted badly before coming here. I took stands against some laws. I spoke up openly that women’s rights situation, and children’s rights situation, and minority’s rights situation is not very good in Pakistan. Especially for women. And I would always say, no matter what is someone’s religion, if they’re born in the country, they all should have equal rights. But it’s not there.
If in United States, you know, if you want to move forward in life, opportunities are there. No matter you’re from France or England, you speak a British accent or Spanish accent, or Asian, or Indian, or English. If you are doing good, the country provides you with opportunity.
Yes, there could be some problems. If you want to reach high, yeah, there could be some challenges, some trials, but I still say this country gives you opportunity to do better and to help the community.
Q: What are your thoughts on how Arizona seems to be more accepting to refugees than to undocumented immigrants?
A: You know, this country provides a lot of opportunities, that’s one thing. And I’m not very expert on economics, but I learned from people that when people come from other countries they contribute a lot to our economy, and keep the market going on. They buy cars and rent homes. So, that’s a good part. But if somebody just sneaks in, comes illegally, that’s not the right thing. Then it creates a lot of other problems.
I encourage, I actually strongly believe, that people should come here legally. If you don’t take responsibility in any country, then you’re not contributing to the society. Come here legally and use the opportunity and contribute to the society. I’m here, my brother is in Pakistan. In 10 years, I tried to get him here. He could not come. I never tried to get him illegally over here. I said no, this thing will be done legally and properly. You are more than welcome, I support you. But I will never do anything which is illegal to come over here.
This is what I believe. I learned long time ago when I was a young boy in school that when you do the wrong thing, it’s easy in the beginning, and then it starts becoming difficult and difficult and difficult. The right things are difficult in the beginning, and then slowly, slowly, you know, they become easy for you. Wrong decisions always lead to the wrong destination. Wrong paths lead to the wrong destinations. So, when this country offers a lot then we need to do things correctly and that will bring beauty and justice to our society.
Q: Do you have concerns about the new election?
I don’t think, I don’t see any President that would be liked by everybody. So that’s one thing. Then, people have their own thinking, their own ideology. But I don’t think one President makes all the decisions in United States. We have representatives, there are hundreds of them, and there is media in the United States, and people are very open when they talk.
You know, President-Elect, he’s said many things. Many people have concerns, but there is a judicial system in United States, police, Congress, Senate, they’re all there, it’s just not one President.
So I don’t have concerns. Democrats have some time, now, you know, let’s give Republicans some time. So it’s not just one party ruling all the time. You need to give opportunities to both of them to do their best, to show their best. Yeah, that’s what I feel.
Q: What would you have done if your Visa wasn’t approved?
Well, I would have tried another country. But I am not a person would stay back. Yeah, I would have fought with them and died. I came here and a couple years after, my uncle became, you know, we were working together, and he became federal minister in the government for minority affairs and he was assassinated. They killed him, almost 30-40 shots of AK 47.
Q: Is there anything you want to add or anything you wish people would know about coming here as a refugee?
I would suggest the refugees, when they come here, it’s a different culture. So respect it, enjoy it while you’re here. And I would suggest become a part of American society.
I mean, you can have your own values and eat the food you want, wear the dress you want, but become a part of United States culture. Learn English. Read English books, you know, watch the movies. I mean, there are some bad movies but there are lots of good things here. You know, become the part of United States and contribute.
So I would suggest that yeah, become a part of United States, you know, emerge in the culture, it’s a beautiful culture. You can still have your own identity. You can go to the temple, you can go to the mosque, or anywhere you go, but when you’re here, this country has brought you here, gave you opportunity, then you should be proud to be an American over here. I don’t want people to say I’m Indian American, I’m Pakistani American, I am Spanish American. No, if you’re here, you become a citizen. Then you’re American. We are all American then.
Aneqa Saajjad
Aneqa has made Arizona her new home. She is grateful for the freedom and protection she's found in the United States.